The Believer claims: The Bible is the Best (or Good) Source of Moral Guidance
-No, it contains direct commands and references to barbaric, sadistic, and sexist behavior. God commands capital punishment for relatively minor (or imaginary) transgressions, to which no modern, sane individual could possibly abide by. It is only through modern reason that a person can ignore a large portion of the Scripture. Ask the believer, do you agree with the following passages?
Exodus [21:17] And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
- An angry teen that yells at his father should be killed. There is no doubt here about the language “surely be put to death.” Surely.
Exodus [31:14] Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death.
- Ever done work on a Sunday? If you have, you should be killed. Surely.
Numbers [15:32] And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. [15:33] And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. [15:34] And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. [15:35] And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. [15:36] And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.
- If there was any doubt about the importance of keeping the sabbath, this should dissuade it. A man was simply gathering sticks out in the forest, and these people imprisoned him, and then stoned him to death “as the LORD commanded…”. God quite specifically instructed these people to perform this act. If God commanded you to drag a man out in the street and beat him to death with a baseball bat, would you do it?
Leviticus [20:13] If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
-We are supposed to kill homosexual men. It flat-out says it: they shall surely be put to death. Couldn’t be any more clear than that.
Deuteronomy [3:1] Then we [Moses and company] turned, and went up the way to Bashan: and Og the king of Bashan came out against us, he and all his people, to battle at Edrei. [3:2] And the LORD said unto me, Fear him not: for I will deliver him, and all his people, and his land, into thy hand; and thou shalt do unto him as thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon. [3:3] So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining. [3:4] And we took all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan. [3:5] All these cities [were] fenced with high walls, gates, and bars; beside unwalled towns a great many. [3:6] And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city. [3:7] But all the cattle, and the spoil of the cities, we took for a prey to ourselves.
-God is perfectly okay with killing women and children, razing cities, and looting. In fact, he is all for doing this on a very large scale, as Moses swept across the region decimating cities as described above.
Leviticus [24:16] And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death.
- Speaking ill of God is punishable by death. Surly. Not exactly the most tolerant stance on dissenting opinions and freedom of speech.
Exodus [20:4] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: [20:5] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me.
- God is jealous (he says so himself). God is also petty and vindictive – if you worship a false idol, God will not only punish you, but also your children, your grandchildren, your great grandchildren, and your great, great grandchildren. Further, God forbids us from drawing pictures of fish. It must be very important to him, as it is one of the Ten Commandments. God felt it was so important for us not to draw fish, that he inscribed it in stone himself.
RESPONSE: But these passages are not consistent with God’s call to love, equality, and justice that is found throughout the Bible. You are “cherry-picking” the worst examples while ignoring the good examples.
- Correct, the book does contain a glaring amount of inconsistencies and contradictions. A good moral guide would not say killing is wrong on one page [Exodus 20:13], and then suggest that talking back to your parents is punishable by death on the next page [Exodus 21:17].
- It is true, I have cherry-picked lines from the Bible. However, are not “moderate” or “modern” Christians also cherry-picking by only focusing on the “good” passages? Why does a modern Christian get to ignore lines that demand murder and I can’t ignore lines that forbid it (of which there are far less)?
- The question really is: what makes a modern Christian ignore these barbaric passages? Is it guidance from within their Scripture? No. Modern Christians are using their modern, secular morality to filter the Bible in such a way as to make it compatible with civilized living. This means that the Bible, taken as a whole, is not sufficient to guide us morally. If the Bible was sufficient, why has it been used to justify atrocities for thousands of years? The Bible itself sure hasn’t changed since the time of the Inquisition or even the Crusades. What has changed, then? We have changed. We, as a species, have become more civilized. Not through religious doctrine, as that hasn’t changed. Our reason and sciences have evolved, and forced Christianity (kicking and screaming) to evolve with it. (It wasn’t until October 31, 1992 that the Vatican officially recanted its treatment of Galileo, who was charged with heresy for suggesting that the Earth revolved around the sun, instead of the reverse)
- Do not modern Christians cherry-pick out of convenience for themselves? How many Christians follow Matthew [5:40-42], “…and if anyone wants to sue you and take your coat, give your cloak as well, and if anyone forces you to go one mile, go also the second mile. Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you.”?
RESPONSE: You have to read the Bible with a historical and contextual understanding.
- I agree, in order to avoid barbarism, we have to examine the Bible using reason and modern disciplines. Without those, the Bible is an instrument of hatred and violence. Here’s the rub, though: the vast majority of the adherents to Christianity since its inception have not been people who take the Bible into consideration using such methods.
- Try this on for size: Were God’s commands moral when he made them? If we are examining history and context, was it moral for God to command Moses and his people to abduct and stone to death a man who’s only crime was gathering sticks on the sabbath [Numbers 15:32]? What is immoral today should be immoral two-thousand years ago. If stoning people to death is wrong, than it is wrong to do it tomorrow and it was wrong to do it in the times of Moses and Jesus.
- To make things worse for this argument is that the vast majority of adherents to Christianity throughout history could not read the Bible. Today, the Bible is translated into every language under the sun. For much of book’s history, this was not the case. The Bible didn’t start being translated into English for the masses until the late 1300’s. This practice was originally thought to be heretical or blasphemous by the church (another imaginary crime punishable by death, Leviticus [24:16]). The option for a “historical and contextual reading of the Bible” has only been present for small percentage of the Bible’s total circulation.
- Further, the Bible is very difficult to read. It takes a very committed and discerning mind to even finish the book, let alone understand it. Why would an omniscient and omnibenevolent being create such a confounding piece of literature as his only guide to living? What hope do only partially literate, mostly uneducated people have of discerning the “true reading” of the Bible if they lack the proper training and resources to perform a historical and contextual interpretation?
RESPONSE: Jesus did away with all of the barbarism.
-Jesus did teach about love, forgiveness, and other positive attitudes. However, he himself is never quoted as disavowing the previous laws, such as the Ten Commandments. In fact, he says the opposite on multiple occasions.
Matthew [5:17-18] Do you think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth passes away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
- Jesus is saying that the law will never pass away or diminish. He is also saying that he has not come to abolish the law.
Matthew [5:21-22] You have heard it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You shall not murder’, and ‘whoever murders shall be liable for judgment.’ But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, ‘You fool,’ you will be liable to the hell of fire.
- Jesus is placing even more unrealistic restrictions on behavior, without stating that the punishments will be lessened. In fact, insulting someone else (calling them a fool) gets you a one-way-ticket to hell. Is it a good idea to not insult other people? Absolutely. Should it carry such hefty punishment? Absolutely not.
Mark [2:27] Then he (Jesus) said to them, ‘The sabbath was made for humankind, and not humankind for the sabbath; so the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath.’
- I must, in all fairness, concede this point. Jesus does abolish the custom of killing people for working on the sabbath. This is just one instance of several where Jesus explicitly states that observance of the sabbath is not to be taken so seriously.
John [15:6] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
- Not the most tolerant or forgiving stance on dissenting views. Also, this has been interpreted for hundreds of years as justification for burning heretics. It is easily interpreted as such: “If a man not abide in me [a heretic], he [the heretic] is cast forth as a branch…and men gather them [the heretics] and cast them [the heretics] into the fire, and they [the heretics] are burned.” It is very possible to read this quote with a more metaphorical interpretation (and avoid any heretic burning), but Jesus was not clear about whether he was being metaphorical or literal, as is the case with the vast majority of the Bible. This is related to “Cherry-Picking” and “Modern Christians”, which is detailed above.
RESPONSE: But the New Testament does do away with all the barbarism! You can’t cherry-pick examples from Mark and Matthew without looking at the whole of the New Testament.
- At various places in the New Testament, it is very clearly stated that the old laws are to be abandoned in favor of the new way (through Jesus). This is said by his disciples, in John [1:16-17], Acts [13:39], Romans [2:25-29, and 8:1-4], Corinthians [9:19-21], Galatians [2:15-16], and Ephesians [2:15]. It is important to emphasis that Jesus never states this. This has all been stated by his disciples. This creates an amount of contradiction that cannot be ignored (see Cherry-Picking, above). Do we follow what Jesus is quoted to have said himself (Matthew [5:18-18]“…not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.” and “I have not come to abolish but to fulfill.”) or what his disciples say (Ephesians [2:15] “He has abolished the law with its commandments and ordinances…”)? Again, our reason and modernity inform us of the “correct” choice (see Cherry Picking and Modern Christians, above).